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YOU Make the Call! $1500 NL at WSOP edition 
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DD Whale

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WillieMcFML wrote:
Check back on the flop.


:this

2nd choice...shove flop, it would be hard for him to call with anything less than AJ, he did not re-raise pre flop so AA and KK are likely out


Thu Jun 30, 2011 1:15 am
DD Whale

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grenadaroger wrote:
WillieMcFML wrote:
Check back on the flop.


:this

2nd choice...shove flop, it would be hard for him to call with anything less than AJ, he did not re-raise pre flop so AA and KK are likely out


this is not very sound advice. there's really only two reasons to check behind. pot control and to trap.

1. trapping. obviously we aren't trapping with tens.

2. pot control. the pot already has 1650 in it. the opponent has 2650 left when we go to the flop. any substantial bet and the opponent should only have one of two options. shove or fold. the mistake Druff made was betting without a clear plan of what he'd do if this guy shoved (which should have been taken into consideration given that this was really only one of two options that could have existed).

another terrible thing about checking behind is that it not only gives the other player a free card to spike an overcard if he's holding AQ or AK, but opens the door for him to put us to a decision by betting the turn assuming we had AK with our check behind on the flop.

shoving imo is also not a good play. what hands would you likely shove here? if druff had AA, would he really shove the flop? most importantly, shoving gets the opponent to not fold any hands that beat you (QQ KK or AA), but does get him to fold hands that you can beat (99 and below, and overcard bluff misses). by not shoving and simply betting 2/3rds of the pot, we give the opponent a chance to make a play as well with hands we can beat. if he does shove after our bet, druff should have already made a plan in his head as to whether he would lay it down or call.

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Thu Jun 30, 2011 7:17 am
DD Bracelet Winner
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PokerAnchor wrote:
Older white guys (him) tend to assume other older white guys (Druff) are 3-betting UTG with QQ+, especially if you hadn't been doing it alot. He probably didnt know you were Todd "Dandruff" Wittilis, bracelet winner. He checked the flop knowing you would bet your overpair. His shove was for value not to get you to fold. Pot was about 3600, about 2k for you to call? He could beat your hand.


This is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I folded.

I felt like he either flatted my raise with AA/KK (so as to pot-commit me on the flop instead of making me fold pre-flop with an over-the-top re-raise) or had something like a J or 55, and was waiting for me to pot-commit myself on the c-bet.

What kept running through my mind was, "This guy doesn't think I'm folding!"

This was my first time over-the-top of his many pre-flop raises, and I did it in early position, so he had to think I really had something.

I will concede that it's possible he had a lower pocket pair and just thought this was his only move, but I put too much of a chance on being crushed to 2 outs, and I really wanted to keep my 2150 for a better spot.

Honestly I think it was a very close decision. After folding, I beat myself up, thinking, "Fuck, I could have 7500 right now!"

But if I called and he had me crushed, I would have busted my tiny remaining stack and thought, "Jeez, you knew he had you, and you called anyway! Dummy! Think of what you could have done with that 2150..."


Sat Jul 02, 2011 2:09 am
DD Piranha

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DanDruff wrote:
PokerAnchor wrote:
Older white guys (him) tend to assume other older white guys (Druff) are 3-betting UTG with QQ+, especially if you hadn't been doing it alot. He probably didnt know you were Todd "Dandruff" Wittilis, bracelet winner. He checked the flop knowing you would bet your overpair. His shove was for value not to get you to fold. Pot was about 3600, about 2k for you to call? He could beat your hand.


This is EXACTLY what I was thinking when I folded.

I felt like he either flatted my raise with AA/KK (so as to pot-commit me on the flop instead of making me fold pre-flop with an over-the-top re-raise) or had something like a J or 55, and was waiting for me to pot-commit myself on the c-bet.

What kept running through my mind was, "This guy doesn't think I'm folding!"

This was my first time over-the-top of his many pre-flop raises, and I did it in early position, so he had to think I really had something.

I will concede that it's possible he had a lower pocket pair and just thought this was his only move, but I put too much of a chance on being crushed to 2 outs, and I really wanted to keep my 2150 for a better spot.

Honestly I think it was a very close decision. After folding, I beat myself up, thinking, "Fuck, I could have 7500 right now!"

But if I called and he had me crushed, I would have busted my tiny remaining stack and thought, "Jeez, you knew he had you, and you called anyway! Dummy! Think of what you could have done with that 2150..."



theres always a chance hes got 55 in that spot and hes shoving because he thinks you will call with qq kk tt aa AJs and hes got you crushed. if he flats your flop bet theres a 99 percent chance you wont put another dollar in the pot unless you improve your hand so now is his chance to get the chips in the middle and hope his hand can hold up

it reminds me of all the times you see guys say "i know youve got AA but i call" and they turn up KK....imo you can wait for a better spot since its early and two smaller pots can recoup your lost chips in this one

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Sat Jul 02, 2011 12:57 pm
DD Fish
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A flop check-raise from an older player in a live event is :seriousmfbiz and you should fold.

I think betting flop is fine if you're very confident that your hand is no good after a check-raise. But if there's some chance your hand is still good then I'd have checked back the flop to avoid this spot.

However I think pre-flop is a mistake. With these stack sizes you're in a horrible spot if he 4-bet shoves allin but raise-folding a hand as strong as TT is terrible.

Did you decide what you whether you were calling or folding to a 4-bet before you 3-bet? You obviously didn't decide whether to fold or call to the flop check-raise before betting. Just analysing these spots in advance will help you make better decisions.

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Sun Jul 03, 2011 3:21 am
DD Fish

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CHECK raise, was opening alot now pushes, i fold iv got 21bbs, enough to find spots, i know am ahead


Tue Oct 18, 2011 5:04 am
DD Fish

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the fold was right, check raise opens your eyes,he did it with no fold equ. ,you where com. [ 1/2] your stack, hate this spot, good fold. i find the nutzz too many times,lol there! go play ninja 20bb stack


Tue Oct 18, 2011 6:07 am
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